"I WANTED TO MAKE IT FEEL AUTHENTIC": AN INTERVIEW THE HARD RIDE'S THADD TURNER

In many ways, Thadd Turner has lived with Wild Bill Hickok. He has witten kids books and screenplays on t, a biography, and directed a documentary on James Butler Hickok His latest work involving the gunfighter is The Hard Ride, a fictional account of his rousing life and the friends who avenged his death, with focus on fellow scout California Joe. Mr, Turner talked to us about Hickok and writing about him.

SCOTT MONTGOMERY: Where does your fascination with Wild Bill come from?

THADD TURNER: I became inspired by Wild Bill Hickok after college when I started reading his books by author Joseph Rosa, who became a good friend.  At the age of 39 I decided to spend 30 days in Deadwood, about the same amount of days that Wild Bill was there before being killed by Jack McCall.  I wanted to know more information about Wild Bill while he was in Deadwood, but there was little available.  I started researching the Deadwood of 1876 through the newspapers of the time and ended up spending 2 and half years in Deadwood researching materials for my non-fiction book "Wild Bill Hickok: Deadwood City - End of Trail" released in 2001.  Producer David Milch of HBO's 'Deadwood' cable television series read my book and asked me to come to Los Angeles in 2002 to help lay out Deadwood's first main street with the pilot episode's director Walter Hill.

S.M.: What did you want to portray about him in Hard Ride that you hadn't seen in other accounts?

T.T.: I wanted to follow the historical record of Wild Bill and create scenes that told his life story and actions.  Having lived the cowboy life and been involved in re-enactments and documentaries about the Old West for many years, I wanted to make it feel authentic.  The Hard Ride is adapted from my original screenplay of the same title that I wrote in 2006, at the time we had New Line Cinema interested in distribution with Val Kilmer (Johnny Varnes), Elisabeth Shue (Agnes Lake), Karl Urban (Wild Bill), and Luke Wilson (Charlie Utter) interested in the main character roles.  We lost the distribution deal when the Writers Guild of America (WGA) went on strike in 2007.

S.M.: In the Hard Ride, you have a group of killers that planned his murder than just Jack McCall. How much of that can you find in history? It was the first time I heard about them.

T.T.: Johnny Varnes, the leader of his 'Montana Toughs' as they were known then, wanted to control the saloons and gambling dens in early Deadwood.  There has been several written accounts (with some substantiation, but never completely confirmed) about Varnes paying Jack McCall to shoot Wild Bill.  At the illegal miner's court trial in Deadwood the day after he killed Wild Bill on August 2nd, McCall said he killed Hickok to get revenge for him  killing his brother post Civil War.   This is untrue, Wild Bill never killed McCall's brother.  Ironically, the night before on August 1st, Wild Bill was playing 5 card stud poker with McCall at the same table in the No. 10 Saloon and beat him.  Wild Bill offered McCall 41 for his dinner meal, but McCall declined.  Was McCall there on Aug 1st looking for a way to kill Wild Bill because Varnes offered to pay him, or was it coincidence that McCall killed him the next day because Wild Bill took all his money gambling with him?  We may never know the answer to that.

S.M.; How did California Joe become the friend who was the main supporting character.?

T.T.: CalifornIa Joe and Wild Bill became friends after the Civil War, Wild Bill was a scout and spy for the North who would infiltrate the Southern border acting like a southerner and report back to his superiors with updated military activity and other details.  California Joe (Joe Milner) was a cavalry man for the North.  They both meet after the war in the West as frontier scouts.  California Joe was about 10 years older than Hickok (who was 10 years older than Buffalo Bill and Texas Jack), but felt he was a trustworthy and honest man.  California Joe scouted with Wild Bill for Lt Colonel George Custer, was at Wild Bill's wedding to Agnes Lake in Cheyenne and spent time with Wild Bill in Deadwood before his death. It made good sense to make Joe the supporting character with Wild Bill.

S,,M.: How did his romance with Agnes become the center of your take?

T.T.: Agnes Lake Thatcher.  The last name of her previous husband (Lake Thatcher) whom was killed by a man sneaking into one of their wild west shows (https://www.cowgirlmagazine.com/they-went-that-a-way-agnes-lake-hickok/).  Agnes and Wild Bill had met in Abilene and back East when Wild Bill toured the stages with Buffalo Bill and Texas Jack Omuhundro in 'Scouts of The Plains' (original title was 'Scouts of The Prairie' before Wild Bill joined the show).  They met again in Cheyenne, WY where Wild Bill asked Agnes to marry him.  He did write her a couple letters from Deadwood, including the letter that states 'if he doesn't make it back to her alive, he will cross the river and swim to the nearest shore to be with her'.  

As a filmmaker, I've written almost thirty screenplays (I've adapted eight books to screenplays).  In a strong screenplay you must give the audience the set up of the story and let them know what is at risk for the lead character(s) within the first 12 - 15 minutes, or you will lose the audience's attention.  You must move forward with valid plot points and strong character development.  I felt that there needed to be romance in Wild Bill's life -- partly to dispel the Calamity Jane stories that they were together, all untrue -- I added the Denver drunk get-together back story to strengthen Calamity's character, especially to enhance her new relationship with Steve Utter and then justify her resolve for revenge for Wild Bill and Steve at the end.

S.M.: Is there another old west figure you like to write about like this?

T.T.: My next book for Wolfpack Publishing is "RODEO MAN", a fictional modern-Western rodeo story about a bull rider living in the shadows of his famous father, who is injured, thinks of suicide, finds romance, and becomes a bullfighter, making the National Championships. Expect to be released in December.

My next Western figure book after that will be "LADY AND A GUN", also to be adapted from my original screenplay about famous female gambler Charlotta Thompkins; aka 'Lottie Deno' -- she grew up a large Kentucky plantation with racing horses, her father taught her to gamble at cards as a young girl when she accommodated him on trips down the Mississippi River, he was killed in the Civil War, the family lost everything, and Lottie began to ply her gambling skills on the MS River, San Antonio, TX, and other Western Towns -- She meet some other famous people of the time, including Wyatt Earp, Doc Holiday, and got in a pistol fight with Big Nose Kate in Kansas. She gave Billy The Kid his first paid job in the saloon she owned in the mining camp of Silver City, New Mexico -- where he killed his first man (fictional in the book). She married a sheriff, Frank Thurmond, from Texas who became a NM legislature and they are both buried in Las Cruces, NM.